Riku on 01 Apr 2007 06:58 pm
FM: Enigmatic Soldier Battle
“Aqua… Ven… Keyblade… who are you? I can feel it… we have met before… it was when… No… it isn’t you… It isn’t you that I have chosen… Why is it not him… Xe… ha… nort… is that you? Xeha… nort… Xehanort!”
Thanks to Xevorili.
Final Mix: Secret Boss (Enigmatic Soldier) Defeated! (Aftermath)
Enigmatic Soldier: I see. Your strength is… What I sensed in you is…
(When returning for a rematch:)
Enigmatic Soldier: So you have returned, young Keyblade user. I have no further power to give you. All I have is my hatred towards Xehanort. Will you allow me to engrave that into your heart?
412 Responses to “FM: Enigmatic Soldier Battle”
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on 24 May 2007 at 2:31 pm 300. Shakespeare
Just because the third aspect can’t be removed while preserving the other two doesn’t mean that it isn’t the third aspect. If you remove the heart from a being, then the heart continues on as a Heartless (we’ll consider a Heartless to be some sort of temporary body created from Darkness; the state of being a Heartless is unnatural, so the Heart waits to be returned either to its body, or to Kingdom Hearts)
Think about it this way: If you remove the heart, then two incomplete beings come into existence. If you remove the body (i.e. destroy it in a fire or a nuclear explosion), then the Heart and soul are released back to the world. If you remove the soul, then a being ceases to live, and something that’s not alive can hardly be a whole being. (Besides, upon death, the heart would return to Kingdom Hearts as well. That’s why people don’t become Nobodies when they die; their soul has already left.)
Sora had his memories altered (and removed all together in some places) by Namine in Chain of Memories. This removal of his memories didn’t suddenly make him incomplete. Roxas lost his memories, too. (Granted, Roxas was incomplete fron the beginning, but it wasn’t his lack of memories that made him such). veryone who was connected with Sora. None of them became incomplete because of this.
Perhaps the two most telling examples are Xehanort himself and Kairi. Xehanort lost his memories long before he made his appearance in Kingdom Hearts; total amnesia. However, he was still a complete being (albeit missing an important part of his identity, but not his being as a whole). Also, memories aren’t ‘lost’…they’re still available somewhere in your mind. If they weren’t, then Namine would have had a hard time putting Sora back together; she can’t work with memories if there are none.
Second case in point is Kairi. She, too, has total amnesia regarding her life before arriving on Destiny Islands. She doesn’t remember anything about Hollow Bastion, no matter how hard she tries…but the memory of the fairy tale her grandmother told her still remains in her heart. Those memories aren’t gone, they’re just inaccessible for whatever reason. Even after recovering her heart, Kairi doesn’t remember her life before, and she is still complete.
In short, memory is an aspect of a person, but not of a being.
on 23 May 2007 at 8:07 pm 299. Sephiros
The soul is not the third aspect of a whole being. A nobody is made of soul and body, it is in an ansem report. How a body of its own can have life without a soul, it must have a soul to be alive. So the heartless are only the heart, and the nobodies are body and soul. The third aspect is something different, like memories, or the mind, I really dont know.
on 23 May 2007 at 6:36 am 298. Shakespeare
(Also to note: Hollow Bastion’s Great Crest was the Heartless Emblem. The whole CASTLE wasn’t a Heartless…)
on 23 May 2007 at 6:34 am 297. Shakespeare
Ansem’s Emblem was a brooch that he wore to keep his coat shut. He was the one who designed the Emblem in the first place. When you fight him at End of the World when he’s attached to the giant Heartless Ship, he doesn’t have an Emblem. (I should know…I spent a good deal of that fight staring at his chest. Hoo…)
on 22 May 2007 at 3:15 pm 296. khfan
Also, if anyone really noticed Ansem from kh1 he bore the ‘Emblem’ symbol only given to heartless that were artificially created stating that he could not have been Xehanorts heartless but (in my opinion) the bald mans heartless from the secret movie in kh2: fm+.
on 22 May 2007 at 3:12 pm 295. khfan
If Ansem the wise transferred Roxas to the data world of Twilight Town would Roxas’s (supposed) heart been transfered too? But when Ansem the wise attempted to transfer Xemnas’ Kingdom Hearts it didn’t work. So Roxas couldn’t have had a heart.
on 22 May 2007 at 2:21 pm 294. Shakespeare
And with +400 HP, to boot.
on 20 May 2007 at 9:06 pm 293. A Passing Nobody
Yikes! Terra is equal to about 7 sephrioths….attacking at once
on 20 May 2007 at 5:03 pm 292. Shakespeare
Evoba; The battle does take place in the past, from what we can tell. Nomura has been vague. Also, it can be inferred that the knights lost, since in FM+, Xemnas is in possession of Aqua’s armor, and I doubt that she would just randomly hand it over. It’s also laying in a position that doesn’t suggest deliberate display.
DiZ didn’t have a Nobody, the existence of the Nobody was unknown before their research. ‘Aqua’, ‘Ven’ and ‘Terra’ don’t rearrange to form any Organization members’ names, so they can’t be their Somebodies.
Axel knew Sora because the Organization knew that Roxas’s somebody was Sora. Axel also wouldn’t have been left ignorant if he was going to be part of the Castle Oblivion team. (And a Nobody can’t have a Nobody. Something without a heart can’t lose a heart, because it doesn’t have one.)
Cloud; I’m not sure why you directed the note about Kairi’s heart being inside Sora to me…since I know that already and have mentioned it several times. Kairi has lost her memories on several occasions, though…first when she arrived at Destiny Islands, then when Naminé altered everyone’s memories.
The Chasers can’t be without souls. Ansem the Wise wasn’t mistaken; looking at the history of the role of souls in Nomura’s games shows this. If you remove the soul, you will die. Ansem the Wise wouldn’t have recorded that if it hadn’t been tested and found true.
And I made mention of the chainless Keyblades in another post; the link is in my name. Worth noting is that Terra’s Keyblade has a place to equip a Keychain…it just doesn’t happen to have one equipped.
on 20 May 2007 at 4:03 am 291. Cloud
to evoba esir, there is no ‘real axel’, axel is a competly new nobody and his heartless became a heartless, the real axel is gone so it cant be him, also the three knights had conections to Organization XIII so when he says ive seen u somwere before, hes probably meeining roxas, like xigbar and luxford kept referringto sora as roxas. also sora cant be a noboy becasue nobodies hav no hearts and therefore ant control a keyblade, roxas is an exception becasue he was created and sora came back, similar to namine and her specaial ability, to shakespeare, kairis heart rested in sora, so sora had 2 hearts techinically, his own and kairirs resting heart, that is how sora was able to reawake kairi. The soul is the third part to a person but what if ansem was wrong about the soul thing, that may be what chasers (first kh2 secrt video) truly are, its just a thoery but what if chasers are truly souless beings and are ‘chasing’ there former beings. also the chainless keyblades should be considered, terra and the other keyblades in the fields had no keychains so maybe that is the original form of the keyblade andthus unlocking its full potential, these are just theories aout it
on 20 May 2007 at 2:01 am 290. Evoba Esir
What if this battle takes place in the past… I don’t have the game, so i’m just spit-balling here… that black void-like thing could be a portal to the past, because in the secret ending, it shows all three of them, and the bald guy fighting in what appears to be that very same place… I forgot how the secret video ended (sorry)…but I THINK the three knights lost, so maybe, when the bald guy opened up kingdom hearts (for some reason) maybe after that he just… packed up and left… forgetting about the three soldiers, maybe Terra (Enigmatic Soldier) needed to rest (or something like that, whatever) and knew that if he fought the bald guy again, he would surely lose (because if three of those knights can’t deafeat the bald guy, he knew just one couldn’t, either) so maybe, the bald guy is (another MAJOR SPIT-BALL), DiZ’s (or someone) nobody who wanted to kill them because maybe those were (guessing here, work with me…) the forms of the Organization XIII members before they turned into nobodies, because if you look at Sora’s nobody (Roxas) it looks nothing like him (maybe, kind of like him) so maybe it could’ve been (spit-ball…again) like, Axel’s regular form, because he hates betrayal, so maybe when the other three knight’s were defeated, maybe they left the Enigmatic Soldier (thinking he was actually dead) and he thought his knight friends LEFT him to die, so maybe that’s why he hates treachery… (EXTREME F***ing spitball) maybe Sora was already a nobody, and had another form before he became Sora, and maybe he was one of the knight’s, and thats how Axel knew Sora, and Sora didn’t know how he knew him… Anyone like this hypothosis? Again, I was just spit-balling.
on 19 May 2007 at 10:26 pm 289. Mohrphorm
The Ansem Report even clearly states the three components as “the heart, body, and soul”. He was speaking of them as 3 different things.
on 19 May 2007 at 5:48 am 288. Shakespeare
Yeah, I know. I’m just stating what we already know, both from the game and from Nomura’s past stories. (And my mini-editorial about souls wasn’t directed at you, so no worries. ^^)
In any case, the soul must be the third aspect of a whole being, since without it, a being ceases to exist. However, Sora, Kairi and Xehanort still existed, despite memory loss on the part of each of them, and I think we can agree that they are all (or at least Sora and Kairi are) complete beings, right?
on 19 May 2007 at 1:56 am 287. Sephiros
About the soul thing, in an ansem report it says that a nobody is made from the soul and the body, so the soul is not from the third part. I was considering memories and mind to be like the third aspect of a whole being, but only time will tell us. And even if we continue with theories, we cant expect anything until the game arrives or Nomura giving us info.
on 18 May 2007 at 4:16 am 286. Shakespeare
A body without a soul is dead; the separation of the heart from the body does not result in death, but the separation of the soul from the body kills the subject instantly. Secret Ansem Report 4 states this, and you can see how this idea ties in with a lot of other Nomura games.
In Final Fantasy VII, the Lifestream was somewhat like the soul of the planet; all living things existed because of the Lifestream, and the planet itself is alive (the Gaia Theory is a popular theme in FF). Without it, the planet would die and crumble into dust. As the Mako reactors sucked the Lifestream out of the planet to refine it into electricity, the planet slowly started to go barren (especially around Midgar; the landscape is bleak and nothing grows until you get close to Kalm.)
The idea exists in Final Fantasy IX as well. The planet Terra was dying, and was forced to consume the souls of other worlds to continue to survive (kind of like Galactus from the Fantastic Four), but would thus kill the planets it fed off of. However, in that game, beings without souls were created on Terra (the Genomes), who did not age and simply wandered about like automatons without any care for what happened around them…rather like robots. (A few Genomes were given souls, and boy, did they show a stark contrast to their brethren.) The Black Mages, also like robots, were given life and magical power through the Mist, the remains of souls after they had been processed by the Iifa Tree (a sort of soul-cleansing measure that purified souls at the expense of spewing the deadly Mist across the entire Mist Continent via its roots, causing all sorts of horrible monsters to crop up). However, the Black Mages could ‘awaken’ and function on their own, just like anyone else. (Take a look at little Vivi, for instance.)
It resurfaces again in Final Fantasy X with the Farplane and the Pyreflies. All souls in FFX return to the Farplane when Sent, just like all souls return to the planet in FFVII and FFIX. (There is a blatant connection in FFX-2 to FFVII, when Shinra (hardy har har) announces that an endless amount of energy lies within the Farplane, and that through tapping into it, life would be incredibly easy. Nomura has said that he intended for that to be a direct connection to FFVII, where the Shinra Electric Power Company does exactly that with their Mako reactors. But we all know how THAT one turned out…)
So with that said, I don’t think it’s any different in Kingdom Hearts. Since a world has a heart, it follows that a world would also have a soul (a Lifestream, we’ll call it), and that without that Lifestream, the world would crumble away, never to be recovered like a heart lost in the Darkness can be. The same happens on a smaller scale. One person can lose their heart to Darkness and become a Heartless and a Nobody, but when reunited, they return to life as usual (just like everyone did when the worlds were restored at the end of KH1). However, if their soul was removed, then they would simply cease to live.
on 17 May 2007 at 2:20 pm 285. Shakespeare
I haven’t found any evidence suggesting that Xehanort was given an artificial heart. Remember that Finkelstein’s attempt to make an artificial heart failed. Ansem the Wise doesn’t understand the complexity and strength of the heart, he said so himself. And the Heartless-making machine didn’t make artificial hearts, it make artificial Heartless. Xehanort’s report (written under the name Ansem) said that building the Heartless Machine was a step toward creating an artificial heart (’a heart from nothing’ in the text), not that it actually created artificial hearts.
Besides, can a heart (in Kingdom Hearts) be transplanted from one being to another in order to complete them? Nomura said that the heart reunites with its own body, so it seems that each one instinctively knows which heart belongs in which body…would a body reject a heart that wasn’t its own? (Kairi’s heart can be considered exceptional, so the events surrounding her and Sora in KH1 don’t apply; I mean your average, everyday heart full of darkness and memories and such.)
on 16 May 2007 at 8:42 pm 284. Mohrphorm
In order to theorize better on the “soul bad guys,” we need to know the soul’s function. Nobodies have Souls and bodies, the body is just a shell… so what does the soul do?
on 16 May 2007 at 8:25 pm 283. Fulcan Ashnard Ryst
Also to mention that I belive Heartless with strong will can produce a Synthetic Body, as well as Nobodies with strong will can produce Synthetic Hearts. Examples of this are Xehanort, Sora, and Kairi, for Heartless, and Roxas, Axel, and Namine, for Nobodies. Axel said before he ‘faded’ that “You make me feel… the same way.” Normal nobodies cannot feel, and he would not lie to Sora on his ‘death’ bed.
on 16 May 2007 at 8:23 pm 282. Fulcan Ashnard Ryst
Perhaps you’re all forgetting. There are THREE enemies, not two. The three parts: Heart, Body, Soul/Memories. I belive the Enigmatic Knights to be the Endless (Soul/Memories) of Sora, Kairi, and Riku.
on 16 May 2007 at 4:38 pm 281. Sephiros
Shakespeare, there can be a nobody from a nobody. I will explain. I think that the soldier that came out of the bald man is xehanort, he is the nobody and the bald man is the heartless of a complete being. The bald man has the ability to separate in his two forms. I think that after the fight, the soldier (Xehanort) lose his memory and was rescue by Ansem the Wise. Xehanort start his research and find a way to create an ARTIFICIAL HEART so he can use it. He became a complete being again, but want to know so bad everything about the heart that experimeted on his own body, whole again thnx to the artifial heart. When he experimented with his body, he became a heartless(Ansem) and a nobody(Xemnas). I dont know if his name was Xehanort from the start or if Ansem the Wise put him that name because he does not remember anything.
on 16 May 2007 at 1:30 pm 280. Shakespeare
What applied to Riku? I think I missed something…
on 15 May 2007 at 7:48 pm 279. Mohrphorm
Hmmm… I think he was applying to Riku. Riku was the one who was originally destined to wield the Kingdom Key.
on 15 May 2007 at 5:28 am 278. Zen
Bob, are you a friend of Dominic from this site?
on 15 May 2007 at 5:07 am 277. Bob
the soldiers name is Terra
on 13 May 2007 at 11:24 pm 276. Shakespeare
Yeah, lots of people always speculate when something this big in the fandom comes around…I mean, just look at all the theories for Harry Potter.
on 12 May 2007 at 7:04 pm 275. Master Hearts
just a thought i no it sux but still there are so many rumors on this im not sure what to believe
on 12 May 2007 at 5:51 pm 274. Shakespeare
What makes you think that Roxas still has a heart? I haven’t watched all the new scenes since my internet connection is so slow. But a Nobody of a Nobody? That would be like the Heartless of a Heartless. It’s not possible to lose something that you don’t have.
If Ven is Roxas’s Nobody, then that would mean that Roxas wasn’t actually a Nobody. When we get to play as Roxas, he doesn’t SEEM to be a Nobody because he has lost all memory of BEING a Nobody. He doesn’t know any different.
on 12 May 2007 at 12:58 pm 273. Master Hearts
ok shakes i have some new information don’t think you could count this as a theory but i think that since Roxas still has a heart as hinted in final mix 2
i believe that ven could be the nobody of a nobody if thats possible since he still had a heart. well thats it give me some backup info if applicable
on 12 May 2007 at 1:31 am 272. mKh
he is not the father of riku
on 12 May 2007 at 1:20 am 271. Reese
I wonder what that soilder’s name is since he’s the father of Riku